Feedback

Note: Because we don't want spambots to pick your address off of our pages, we're no longer printing our readers' e-mail addresses with their letters —ed.

Contented Bourgeois Guy vs. Disaffected Radical Black Intellectual:
The Epic Begins

Hello Mr. Waller,

I just read your opinion story titled "African-Americans can Empathize with Tourtured Iraqis" and I have a question for you. I'm white, live near the beach, and enjoy what many would call a "cushy" lifestyle. I tell you this so that you understand my perspective.

I believe that the United States creates more opportunity for more people, and provides a better standard of living for more people, than any other organization the world has known. Do you agree? We more or less stole the Southwest US from Mexico, and I think it's worked out pretty well. All you have to do is cross the border from Tijuana into San Diego to see why I think that territory is doing better under our management.

The United States has its problems, but name the countries that put more wealth, freedom, and opportunity into the hands of a higher percentage of people. Your list will include a handful of places that feature much smaller, more homogenous societies. Then name the countries that put more wealth, freedom, and opportunity into the hands of more non-whites. That will also be a short list made up of smaller, more homogeneous societies.

I thought parts of your story were valid. I think Rumsfield is just as sorry that Abu Ghraib came to light as he is about anything that happened there. But how can you make this statement?

I have long feared that the entire history of brutalization of African Americans was essentially practice for the real goal of America's ruling elite: the eventual brutalization and enslavement of every American, and eventually of the entire human race under a global regime of plantation-style slave labor, illiteracy, surveillance, and bodily degradation--in short, the very state of involuntary servitude under a peculiar institution that Black slaves endured in the United States prior to emancipation.

Slave labor, illiteracy, surveillance, and bodily degradation are not the engines of wealth. The ruling elite here understand that for them to maximize their wealth the underclass must be incentivized and productive. There are benefits in that for the rest of us, no matter where our ideology lies. If 100% of the Iraqis followed Bush like sheep until he handed the country back to them they'd also realize those benefits for a greater number of their people than they had ever known.

If you have time to reply I'd be interested to see how you respond.

Respectfully,
Stephen Johnson

Mr. Johnson;

First of all, my article is an article—a critical analysis in fact, and not an "opinion story." This is an important point, inasmuch as your letter is a critique, not a fan letter, or a "rant" or anything other than exactly what it is. Being clear about words and contexts are important right now in American history. It is crucial to be clear with words. I hope that does not sound harsh. I don't mean for it to. Literacy is my profession because I am a teacher and a journalist. Two professions crucial to democracy that are right now under vicious attack by the thugs who run this country—the ruling class. Why? So that they can convince citizens like you that America is as you call it, "an organization" rather than what it truly should be: a democracy.

I'm certain, by the tone and diction of your critique you do not belong to that ruling class (don't let the skin color you think you see when you look into your mirror fool you). You, my brother, are oppressed, just as the majority of the American population is, if for no other reason, then because you apparently have been deprived of a true education, and have been filled with the most mendacious propaganda about the ruling class which you think has given you so much simply because you live on one of the rapidly diminishing beaches still left in the wake of the rape of the natural environment (I'd lay you odds, Mr. Johnson, that the tide washing up onto your beach contains so many low level toxins and pollutants that you might not think your life was all that "cushy" someday if you should contract cancer from them).

At any rate, your cliche argument that five hundred years of mass murder, genocide, slavery, wage slavery, exploitation, war, rape, chattel domination of women (even white women!) and brutality by the ruling class, their armies, their CIA, and their corporations are somehow a phantasm or not to be even addressed as that much due to the sophistry that "the rulers know that the 'engine' of wealth doesn't run well on the blood of the people" is just too sadly naive to comment on.

You say: "The ruling elite here understand that for them to maximize their wealth the underclass must be incentivized and productive. There are benefits in that for the rest of us, no matter where our ideology lies." All I can suggest to you is that you read Howard Zinn's "A Peoples' History of the United States." That's a good place to begin. Try also, anything by Dr. Helen Caldicott, founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility. Also, the books of Edward Said, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Wolf or Angela Davis.

I used to live in a beach environment—Miami. Beautiful weather, I made a decent living, had a beautiful Italian American girlfriend and lived in an exclusive community (Coral Gables) where I never had to see any serious poverty or serious Black people if I chose not to. Can't say that I liked Miami very much. It takes a lack of consciousness and lack of books and newspapers to feel okay about yourself there, even with a beautiful Italian American girlfriend—though she sure helped.

Which, of course, is just how it is there: no books, no consciousness, no newspaper.

I went to an Ivy League school (Cornell) which is how I can tell you for sure, that the ruling class is not stupid. Just brutal. They do not believe their own propaganda. They want you to believe it, Mr. Johnson. You even more than me. I know I'm oppressed, I'm Black. You, they can fool by telling you your Irish, Italian, Jewish, Polish, and Scottish ancestors getting kicked in the ass, indentured, exterminated, and forced into peonage for a hundred years doesn't matter because you are no longer ethnic but "white." Please understand that even if you are BLACK, this all still applies. Two words: Colin Powell.

In short, free your mind, Mr. Johnson. Your skin will follow.

Respectfully,
Ray Waller

Intelligent, but Wrong

Certain things within your latest article disturb me. While I, along with you, was thoroughly disgusted with the Nick Berg video, it seems as if you have decided to turn this into some sort of attack at our administration. First and foremost, you must understand that our government did not put this man to death. Terrorists orchestrated his death because our government refused to bow to demands of a prisoner exchange, and rightly so. Moving on, with that same thought in mind:

"And if you're Dick Cheney, how do you live with yourself knowing your stock options just caused someone's kid to become a Pez dispenser."

Cheney is on a fixed salary from Halliburton. He gains no money whether Halliburton makes a billion dollars this year, or loses a billion. And all money generated by his stock goes straight to charity. He makes no money. Terrorists cut off this man's head, not Cheney. You need to remember this fact.

"It is an outrage that this woman should do to poor Iraqi prisoners, in the course of performing her military duties... The scariest thing, when you come down to it, isn't that Lynndie England is some sort of anomality—it's that she's one of us."

If by one of us, you mean that she was an American, then I would have to readily agree with you. However, if by 'one of us' you mean that we would all act the same in her situation, then you're sadly mistaken. Perhaps we know different Americans. But here, where I live, the Americans I know are not in support of what this woman did. I come from a military family, and I can tell you with the utmost pride that not only do the average Americans I come in contact with detest what was done in Abu Ghraib, but so do the military personel that I regularly converse with. My father was in the Navy, my mother was a Marine, and I myself am in the Navy. We have nothing but the utmost contempt for what was done to these prisoners. As do most that I know.

That is the attitude with which we have generated. Contempt. Contempt for what England did and contempt for all those who are also responsible. What was done was deplorable and outright filthy, however it does not reflect what the rest of us are like. And in that respect, she is most certainly not 'one of us.'

I do want to say that this is not an attack on your site or you, personally. I realize that we all have our varying opinions, however you should be aware that your armed forces do not condone or agree with anything that happened at the prison. There are bad apples everywhere, and the military is no exception. You should remember, however, that when a drop of water falls into a glass of milk, it is still a glass of milk.

—Eric K.

Us? Make fun of the Bush Administration?

And the fact that Cheney's company is involved in this at all is sufficiently bad, we think, to merit a Congressional investigation.

As for the evil in all of us—read Browning, and remember when you teased some kid for being different in junior high school.

Youth: Wasted on the Young?

Hi there,

Enjoyed your piece about the 20somethings. By the read, how about ZenGen? If my son had a child at the same age as I had him, that child would be part of your generation. What were my hopes and dreams at age 25? Not much different from yours. What were my actions? Not too bizarre. Went to school, got married, had babies, went back to school, worked, played, and always involved in some project or cause. No extra-curricular flag-burning or recreational pharmaceutical pursuits. Pretty boring by Boomer Standards.

For the first time in my life, I'm really worried. And I'm really scared too. I hate George Bush. I hate the Patriot Act. I hate Justin Timberlake and his collection of 15 $30,000 watches. I hate athletes who parade around in full-length fur coats. I hate granite counters and cornice molding. I hate Enron. I hate bling-bling and cha-ching. In short, I hate the world as most of us seem to know it and I'm too lazy, cynical or disgusted to do anything about it. My drug of choice is the internet.

No matter what I start googling for, seems I always end up at a site like yours...."Diagnosis and Treatment of Social Dis-Ease" Here's the short version of today's history path:

searching for> Esther Birdsall Darling, author "Navarre of the North" c.1910,>aurora lights weather>UFO MAN and Seekers >Alex Jones Presents> The Memory Hole>Disinformation. On "Disinformation" was a link to your site re: the SCA. About 36 web pages and you get the email!

Enjoyed and agree with the SCA raison d'etre. (I did RenFaire) Is all of life really high-school? Maybe it's Kindergarten, and the internet is one big show and tell session! Wanna see a cool show and tell that's well, just plain good for you: http://www.aurorawebcam.com. It keeps my spirits up.

Too old, but still ornery,

Joanne

Yup, all of life is high school. And I'm on the literary magazine.

Heya,

I read Andrew Young's "The Why Bother Generation" and I threw up in a bucket. A shiny metal one with Hello Kitty stickers all over it.

Clearly, discovering who you are and where you want to be is a part of maturing. If you're smart, it's a lifelong process.

You're 24 now. You're not in 8th grade or high school and the tone of this article is some of the most self-pitying slop I've read in a long time.

You want to get over your ennui, Mr. Young? GET OFF YOUR PAMPERED ASS AND DO SOMETHING! Whining about your ennui in an article isn't doing something. There are many jobs out there where you can make a difference. There are a hundred places that need volunteers! In your local area! I promise! Take an underwater basket weaving class! Serve food to homeless people! Plant a frickin' tree! Stop comparing yourself to our generation (another manifestation of the unknown "them" you mention in this article) and side step that crap. Own yourself and your power.

We live in what can often be a terribly ugly world. It's not for the weak. This is your world too. This is your time too. If you don't feel included, too damn bad, honey. Include yourself. This isn't 11th grade homecoming. We're all lied to, ignored, treated like crap and a dozen other injustices every single day. Deal with it.

The cool thing about being an adult rather than an angst-ridden teen is now you have the power to make your own decisions, you have the power to make your own choices. You have the power to live as you choose. Stop bitching about it and start doing something about it. You can do it this very moment.

—Auntie Dan

Auntie Dan,

Thanks for the motherly advice. I knew if I couldn't count on my drunken mother, I could always count on Auntie Dan. I was considering whether to respond or not, but I just thought I'd write a little note purely for the sake of a greater good; or maybe because of my horrible ennui!

All of the few times I have written something and had it published; I get at least one angry response. And nine times out of ten it always come across as if the person writing it is talking to someone else. This time is no different. I never talked about boredom or wasting life in my article. I did say that my peers were doing "surprisingly little" after graduating from college. But I didn't mean planting trees or volunteering in a soup kitchen (they actually DO those things), I suppose I was talking more about doing something more WORLD CHANGING, i.e. artistic movements, venturing into politics, etc. But we're young, I get that.

We still have plenty of time and that was the purpose of the rant at the end. We're not apathetic, we're not lazy, we're not cynical. We're just biding our time until we can affect real change in our society. I'm not saying this is any different than any other generation, or that I thought of something special. But I'm saying that we are different and special because we see the value of admitting to ignorance. Meaning that we can all find common ground and ask important questions and work on finding important answers (see: Where are we heading as a society? What laws do we really need? Who really should be in power? And how much power should they have? How do we defeat this motherfucking corporations?). . . instead of just butting heads all day long thinking "my side is right, and you're side is wrong."

There's more intelligence in our generation than sheer numbers and brute force. We are doing everything BUT wasting our time and being bored. I was actually trying to counter that image that seems to be developed about us. We haven't done much yet. . . . but wait.

You see? Now I think you need to go to all those people you've been judging for being lazy and apologize. But really. . . the next time you criticize something I suggest citing specific examples. Quoting the article is always good. And try to stay on topic a little more. Critics have it harder than the original writers because they are trying to debunk something and not just offering up an idea. You have to be more concise, quicker to the point. Try to think of what people might respond and put the answer to that in your critique. I mean I could have really torn apart the article I wrote. But in the hands of Auntie Dan, everything comes out all angry, like you're just yelling at your stoner little brother who can't find a job and who is whining about how he's wasting his life. But that's not me, that's not the article.

—Andrew Young

Jamming One's Gun

While personally a Second-Amendment absolutist—however regional an affair this is, I being a Texan—I have one tiny little nit to pick with you on your otherwise excellent article: really good historical books, especially controversial ones, ALWAYS get a working over with a fine-toothed comb. That's why book reviews are such an important part of the historian's bookshelf. . . if we are dealing with questions of chemistry, anybody in the sciences, while not immediately conversant in the field, can look at how the experimental data was set up and determine whether the logic behind it is valid.

Not so for history. It is not merely for publicly controversial works that this happens. . . I could give you half a dozen examples in my own field that would bore you to death, but it's there, and anybody who publishes expects to get worked over if they put anything silly in their pages. . . what strikes me, as a guy who works with history, is that Bellesiles apparently did NOT expect a close review of his work. . . which is an interesting thing in and of itself.

Good work, amigo. Looking forward to the next one.

—Russell M.

Lesson for a democratic society: You can disagree with someone and not necessarily think they're an idiot.

I wanted to write you about "Fun with the Second Amendment." It was both funny and insightful. I can only imagine the emails you must have received regarding the article.

The newer article "Why we liberals don't like guns" was absolutely hilarious. I guess the purpose of my email is to commend your work. But I'm also interested to know how many serious emails you received about this latest article that began with the words: "Damn right, and another thing..."

btw, I may be knocking on your doors soon for a job. Since my new favourite hobby involves trolling the corporatemofo archives while at work, I figure hiring me would be the least you could do.

cheers,
Kevin

We'd love to have you, but our staff is all volunteer. . . You think we make MONEY on this?!

Black to the Attack

I read Rayfield Waller's contribution with great interest because at a glance, we have much in common. I am Black (transitioning to the "African-American" moniker slowly), work as a post-doc at a university, and consider myself to be a thoughtful young scientist. I too feel that I am an anarchist of sorts.

The suburbs, not the city, are my roots. I have a Ph.D., both my parents have terminal degrees, and while far from rich I grew up wanting for nothing. The images that I see in media of young black men rarely if ever are reflective of who I have become.

In Mr. Waller's article, I got the sense (hopefully misguided) that he was affected strongly by what I refer to as the "trickle-down Negro philosophy," in which the images of blacks in pop culture play strong roles in the feelings of the majority who surround us in day to day life.

My experience has shown me that beyond the initial impression, those people who I have significant relationships with are able to evaluate me independently of the latest rap video or what Colin Powell had to say on the tube about Iraq. It is true that many people buy into the negative images that are often presented of black people, but those people rarely have influence or any input on my life's direction. I control the product that I present and I am able to let those who come across my path know who I am.

Denouncing ODB, Ghostface Killah, and Notorious B.I.G. while championing Scott LaRoc, Eric B, and Digital Underground as "critical artists" raised a red flag for this reader. This separation tells me that the author should spend more time working on being comfortable in his own skin and less time trying to include the a portion of the overall black experience that isn't his cup of tea. (Scott LaRock and Eric B are the DJs who were associated with the "conscious artists" KRS-ONE and Rakim, respectively, but neither qualifies as rap artist by any stretch of the imagination. Digital Underground are fine artists who received much critical acclaim but can hardly be regarded as conscious). There is room for ODB alongside Mos Def in Black America just as sure as Pauly Shore and Robert DeNiro coexist in Hollywood. (Plus, it's OK for a black guy to not be up on hip-hop, no matter what the perception at the water cooler is. No Bob, I haven't heard the new DMX album!)

Rayfield Waller sounds like a good guy and I wish him well on his journey of anarchy. Be comfortable in your skin and change the world person by person as you meet them. The point of this rambling rant is that it's important to remember that there is ultimately a decoupling from the larger group for all people. Only thing is, there's nothing to hide behind when you're out there by yourself. . .

—Ed in Baton Rouge

Writing and Aging

You know, I am glad you're there Ken. I feel exactly the same way. While excusing some trivial errors in your report of it, the Julius/Alex story hit me close to home too. I remember thinking "Damn, I am older than Isaac Newton (22) or Charles Darwin (23) when they changed the world." But I have years to go before I catch up with Immanuel Kant at his first great publication (50+) and he is not to be taken lightly.

I think creative, outside thinkers need to keep these titans as role models. Think James Joyce. If he could learn 26 languages, you can do at least 8, you know? If I try to be William Blake, and I fuck up, then at least I will fail down to something good like Jim Morrison, instead of failing from Jim Morrison down to Barry Manilow.

And most people don't even want to aim for the Manilow level.

Thanks for reminding me.

—Nathan

Your article about two women for every man entertained me, so I thought I'd provide the egghead backing up for the inherent bisexuality sidenote: Freud. Because the primary relationship that a girl forms is with her mother, even though there's an oedipal transfer later on to the father, she retains that initial tendance. Hence, women are at root bisexual, whereas a boy retains the heterosexual oedipal object from birth.

Although a lot of Freud's other work—penis envy, yada yada—has been discredited, I think that the oedipan stuff is pretty solid.

Great article. A sure way to get the rich to pay taxes is to eliminate the payroll tax upper contribution limit. Make everyone pay the 12.4% Social Security tax (6.2% by employer and 6.2% by employee, or 12.4% for self-employed), not just the middle and lower classes earning under $87,000 annually. Bill Gates and other moguls may not pay any income tax, but it sure would be nice to see the "filthy rich" paying 12.4% of all their earned income into Social Security.

It'll never happen since the lawmakers themselves are wealthy. We can still dream.

The phrase "death and taxes" is proof enough that assuming rather than thinking is what leads one to the conclusion that taxes are inevitable. A tidbit of financial history: Income taxes were introduced as a measure to pay for a debt-based money system, the result of allowing international bankers to control government finance and the printing of money. Think about it. No central bank, no bonds. No bonds, no debt. No debt, no taxes. Governments have had enormous success printing their own money, based on the guarantee of monarchs or treasuries.

The book sounds like a good read, but the real scam of the super-rich is to make our mostly unknowing politicians dependant on them to finance their wars. While the system in America and Europe continues to depend on bonds, the rich will encourage fear and conflict to deepen our debt and increase justification for taxes on laborers.

My opinion is that property, sales and excise tariffs are necessary to pay for normal government services and that for any big spending project the people should be capable of backing up their own money, without simultaneously promising to pay interest on it.

Sorry to sound preachy, but if one is going to put effort into fighting a massive system for the good of mankind, then I don't think the tax mechanism is the place to start. That said, people do appreciate your efforts,

I just read your RIAA boycott letter, and don't quite understand the logic of a consumer boycott in this case:
1. A person buys a CD.
2. Said person puts the songs of the CD on their server and shares it with the community.
3. Songs from the CD are now available to anyone with a computer and internet connection.
4. Availability of songs now aplenty, other persons don't visit their local music stores to buy said CD.
5. CD sales and residual income to the creators of the CD plummet.
(last figure I heard on the corporate radio station said somewhere around 26% from last year). Music stores aren't doing as well.
6. Producers must increase cost of CDs to recoup losses (same as
software industry)
7. RIAA comes in to enforce copyright rules (granted, through
questionable tactics that will take YEARS to figure out...).
8. Consumers come in and stop buying CDs, instead electing to
continue sharing to find their favorite songs...

The boycott suggestion continues the fall down the slippery slope, and does nothing to address the issue of copyright violation. The musicians are not to blame for Loss of revenue due to file sharing. If anything, blame the lawyers for executing impulsive and poorly thought-out tactics (filing a docket for Boston in a Washington court!?!?!?) in an effort to create an artificial deterrent to a serious problem. How bout boycotting speeding tickets or John Grisham novels...

The music (and I mean MUSIC - not SONGS like happy birthday or Trogdor (although I love that song) - music mixed, produced, and created with talented musicians, that cannot be reproduced by any old hack out there) is intellectual property, and deserves to be treated as such. The real argument the musicians need to discuss is the issue of live performances vs. studio performances. If the CD sales continue to drop due to file sharing, then the only place the musicians will have to recoup is in the live performances, resulting in exorbitant ticket prices, overpriced peripherals and merchandise, and outlandish food prices. (Bonnaroo, are you listening?)

Is it illegal to possess mp3s of CDs you own? If I have Pretty Hate Machine in my closet that hasnt seen daylight in 4 years, but I have all the songs in mp3 format that I listen to on a daily basis... is that illegal? I don't see why it would be.

So, hypothetically speaking... if you get busted for downloading some mp3s, how do they (RIAA) know you dont own those cds? And if you get a subpoena that you are getting sued, what keeps you from going out and purchasing the cds, and then you are not illegally owning mp3s of that particular artist?

The wife and I have over two thousand albums on vinyl. I wrote the RIAA to see if it was OK to download the digital versions of the songs that I already owned on another format. This falls very close to the "time shifting" that our congress already allows. But I was informed that I would need to purchase all the albums AGAIN to change formats.

While I enjoyed Ken's article, and agree with his arguments for boycotting the RIAA, I think he has missed a crucial element in the demise of the music industry as we know it. Ken sites the high prices of CDs and low quality of music as the reason for the development of a black market, which are both valid arguments. But he doesn't even mention the ties between the major labels in the RIAA, and the corporate radio stations (not to mention concert promoters) that are all but impossible to avoid in any but the largest markets.

The issue here is that for much of America P2P networks are the only access to any music other than the mass produced top 40. Ken mentions that he can't find music by "Lourds" on a P2P network, but has he tried to find a "Fergie" cd at the local Wal Mart (or even at a local music store). In their greed, the music industry, from recording, to distributing, to promoting, has thrown all their resources into a few "artists" in order to create big stars and big money in the hands of a few, through the brainwashing of the listening audience. There is more at stake here than the high price and the low quality of CDs.

While George Bush is out spending our tax dollars on "defending our freedoms", corporate America is busy spending our money eliminating our choices so that when it is all said and done, we will only be left with the freedom (but not the money) to choose between Ford and Chevy, Britney and Christina.

1. I've never downloaded music, but I don't pay a lot for my music. The pawnshop around the corner from my house is all the record store I ever need. I guarantee, all the latest pop will be available within a couple of months. You can always count on some teenage pothead culling his CD collection periodically for drug money.

And it's really great for a classic rock lover like me. I'd rather pay $5 for some Grateful Dead or Allman Brothers CD than the going $15 to $20 or more in the chain record stores.

2. You're absolutely right, disco does indeed suck. It sucks brontosaurus, blue whale and wookie all at the same time.

Your "College Revolutionary's Guide to Getting Laid" just sank me into the deep end of the Pool of Self-Pity.
As a something you'd call a girl who doens't like boys, but isn't a lesbian, who hasn't gotten laid in months, this really fucking annoys me. For some unexplained reason girls would rather be with you hairy, smelly men rather than with moi. Lets face it: as a general rule, you smell, you're annoying, you talk to much, and nothing is more important than your precious fucking ego. Penises are funny looking, too. Like REALLY funny looking... I, on the other hand, am pretty, have a good body, and something you might marginally consider a sense of humor. Yet no matter what I do, all these stupid girls of the world can do is put pictures of OMG HOT BOIS! all over their walls, obsess over "josh hotttnet," and leave me lonely, crying in the corner.

There really was no point in this email, so dont' bother searching for any kind of deeper meaning.

Have you considered that the problem is that you're a student who lives in Colorado? Try moving to NYC or San Fransisco when you get older. There are plenty of folks here who would be eager to help you sort out your sexuality.

Silvia's recent article, "Standing on the Corner, Waiting for the Bus" completely shocked me. I guess sometimes I just forget I live in a liberal city filled with mindless hippy lackjobs (ie Boulder, Colorado).I can't believe you have to pay $25 for a monthly bus pass—I pay only $10. And it takes you an hour to get 8 miles through the city? It takes me 45 minutes to get 7 miles to school everyday, and I don't even live within city limits.

Your article made me realize more cities need public transportation systems like Boulder's. The RTD in the Denver/Boulder area has more than 170 bus routes and a 14-mile light rail line. Buses along major roads come every 10 minutes. There is also a special deal you can get. It's called an Eco-Pass. Your employer buys it, and as compensation they receive a tax benefit. You get all kinds of special goodies with it, like a free emergency taxi ride in case of. . . well, an emergency. More city's public transportation systems need to be based off the one we have in Boulder. I guess sometimes I just take the liberalness of this city for granted.

OK ... I will give you credit for saying what I think we have all been thinking ...

but here's the better question: How? I say right on to your rant ... I am behind you all the way ... but your article is but fluff without at least some suggestions towards a solution ...

I am clueless about the legal requirements/ramifications of such an undertaking, etc, having never worked in a unionized field ...

Well, one way to start is checking this page. Organize a meeting, and invite your coworkers.

I feel obligated to respond to your article on unionization of coders. I am an IT Manager for a small business (200 users). I am THE guy to do anything from scraping gum off a keyboard to making decision on the Technological direction of the company. And, yes, I have been affected by the economic downturn and I have been laid off after 6 years with the same company.

On the surface, unionization sounds like a great idea. I think it is because people don't really understand how unions kill productivity and hurts the economy even more, and ultimately hurts the members of the union that the union was organized to protect. Huh? you say? Let me tell you, unions have had their time and place but nowadays union membership is geared toward the least common denominator or in the case of employees, the worst employee. Do you think that in the economic conditions of recent years that companies could afford to pay everyone $60,000? Hell no. Upper management looks at a union as they would look at their worst employee. You know, the guy who comes in late, screws around most of the day downloading porn instead of working, and consistently insubordinate. Or maybe the girl who seems to always have a "sinus infection" or "migraine" that somehow seems to be commonplace for the "single mom" who we are supposed to treat like some kind of hero because of their bad decisions that that have made in their lives.

Gone will be your ability to negotiate your own salary for your hard work. You will only be allowed to make the minimum starting wage the union negotiated for you regardless of your experience and skillset. Gone will be your ability to negotiate for your annual review because of your hard work and long hours. If your friend "Sara" is a great employee, she either wouldn't have been laid off she would have found another job by now. I had a higher paying job the day after I was laid off due to my contacts in the IT world. I keep in contact with those people because I knew I didn't want to make $28,000 a year the rest of my life. (That was my starting salary in 1994). I make a heck of a lot more these days but I work hard for it. I sometimes work several jobs just for the experience and extra money. I do charity work setting up disadvantaged kids with multimedia computers at Christmastime. It is these types of things that will get you noticed in a better way than being in a union.

I used to live in Pittsburgh and I saw how the unions have destroyed that city. Pittsburgh is currently over a Billion in debt, yes, with a "B" because of the tax base that the unions have chased out. The unions and their jack-booted tactics (Teamsters, Grocery workers, Steel workers just to name a few ran the following companies out of Pittsburgh with their "demands"):

Giant Eagle (They had a management change and almost got run out of town as aresult. The unions picketed for 3 years after they went non-union and slandered their name.)

Hollywood Movie Companies (Pittsburgh was a great place to film movies since there isn't as much population there anymore but the unions chased them away around 1995 after movies like Monkey Business, Robocop, Hoffa, Inspector Gadget, Striking Distance, Silence of the Lambs and many more).

These are just a few and the unions still have a stranglehold on cities like Pittsburgh. Hmmmm, no wonder Pittsburgh has lost over 55% of its population since 1960. The crooked unions like the ones in Pittsburgh have destroyed cars, buildings, participated in terroristic activities, feloniously redirected funds into political causes like the DNC that still voted for NAFTA and GATT despite the unions' hopes. Dumbasses, the Democrats played them like a violin and they still support the DNC.

It will be a sad day when computer geeks unionize. I will say this, the best technical computer geeks usually don't have much of a personality or even good hygiene in some cases. The people interviewing them may over look their great technical skill because they don't understand technology and the geek applying for the position may not have the interpersonal skills to get a good job or negotiate a good salary. Instead, the employer may find a 20 year old willing to work for $25K to do the job. Instead of being abused by corporate America, geeks will be abused and probably exploited by the union leadership, just like they do now with union membership.

In reponse to Mike, we say that no one held a gun to any company's head and forced them to move out of Pittsburgh. They discovered that they could pay people less in other places where they didn't demand to be treated like human beings. Until Congress penalizes taking jobs out of the country, the trend will continue until we're left with the choice of being serfs or unemployed.

Just look at what happens to your money when you join a union. Take for example the latest scandal with the DC teachers union. Why would I want to have some shlep pretend to care about me then spend my dues on crappy politicians and fur coats, furniture, cars, etc.

I would never join a union, it's just like giving extra taxes to the government.

Unions are for people, like your friend, who have little talent and are willing to make as little as every other dullard, regardless of the
quality/quantity of their work. In unions, the only thing that matters is seniority. There's no room for advancement based on ability.

I have to say that is probably one of the best articles I have read in a long time. I have seen IT people mistreated left and right, and not getting paid nearly as much as they use to. I am a 21 year old IT Department manager, and still going to school. I make 30k/year, and I don't complain... I think I am worth more, but I am currently working for a stable company that respects me, so I have job security. So i figure it's the sacrafice that I am willing to make. My father was a IT(security) Department Manager for UMB Bank, and they recently laid him off cause it was too costly. He told me that a lot of people who are considered senior developers are willing to take jobs for less than half of what they use to make, and that's how desperate a lot of programmers are. I like this idea, and I think if I ever saw the start of a programmer union, I would gladly join and do anything in my power to make it work. Thanks for the article, it kind of brightened up my day, at least the
thought of it did.

I have been advocating an Internet Worker's Union for years now. Imagine the cohesiveness and speed with which this union, with its permanently connected members, could achieve the desired results.

The key here is that the union must work for the good of the worker. It needs to work to secure benefits like health insurance and retirement plans for computer workers. What it doesn't need to do is to advocate for mandatory UT2003 time and silly shit like allowing Nerf guns in the office.

At some point, even the educated will realize the power in unionizing. The problem as I see it is that as educated people, most of us see the ruin that unions have caused in the American manufacturing complex. All the workers complain about jobs going overseas while out of the other side of their mouths, they insist on their 15-minute smoke break every hour.

As much as I think this union is a good idea, I wonder if it won't just push more offshore development into the marketplace. With the code slums of India and Siberia bursting with intelligent, calm, and underempowered quality workers, what does an American code monkey do?

You have picked me perfectly out of the masses as I am an Ayn Rand-reading, Heinlein-worshipping, independent, antisocial, libertarian undergrad aspiring to be a computer programmer. There is, however, with these views in mind, nothing wrong with unions from a general standpoint, with some criteria met, of course. First, the union must be entirely voluntary, with no mandatory dues or enrolled for employment with the company. Second, the company must not be forced into bargaining with the union unless they wish to do so; they must retain the rights they had before, when dealing with individual employees. If these two criteria were met they it would what I would term a "moral" union. Unfortunately, the government has twisted union rights and company rights around and around on one of those taffy machines and the result is a mixed bag filled with compulsory regulations. Under our current regulations I would recommend that no union of programmers ever unionize, as that would have drastic consequences and might possibly lead to the destruction of the computer industry. Overall, I think unions are a bad idea, but can be done right as New Zealand had done from the early 90's to 2001 (I think), and that type of union is trustworthy.

What would it take to start a union I would want to but no one I have asked knows much about it.

I support your view of the need for white collar unions, especially among IT workers. Where do we get started?

Why don't programmers unionize? ...Because in C, the word union refers to something useful. It'd just be too confusing.

All I can say is this. As a computer tech I'm a self-proclaimed nerd. All I am really is a glorified user who can do PC hardware and I probably get paid what most low-level programmers do. I decided long ago that learning a programming language for any other reason than personal satisfaction would be a waste of time. There isn't enough money in it and my field has no future anyway. Computers are becoming throw-away like post-it notes. Why learn a skill that will be useless in as little as ten years? Why go though all the trouble to learn to program anything with only the slim chance of getting paid more than the guy flipping burgers? I'm going to school soon, and it WON'T be for computers...because soon people won't just replace cards when PC's break...they'll just replace the whole thing...and do it for $300 or so.

I just finished reading your article on unionizing and all I can say is I whole heatedly agree with your ideas and opinions on the matter. In fact I have been asking the same question for a few years now.

they ARE paid what they are worth. the market dictates what they are worth. they are not worth much because there are so many of them. who told all these jerks to flood the market in hopes of making quick easy money for ever and ever? a better question is who is the bigger jerk, them or you if you really believe the junk you just wrote?

I sympathize with your friend, "Sara," but she hasn't yet discovered the wonderful world of freelancing. You mentioned in your article that the most skilled programmers are self-taught, and I tend to agree. I've self-studied for 10 years and could run circles around some of these college grad kids. I once wanted to work for a big company, be a CGI/HTML guru, get a 9 to 5 job and a salary with insurance and vacation, but over the years I put in many job applications and couldn't even get an interview, despite the fact that much of my work was better than their in-house monkeys. Just having the University paper (which I didn't have) apparently meant something...

So I decided to freelance. I live in the Las Vegas area and I've had a steady stream of new clients and referrals since I started out on my own. Most of them are thrilled that I can do everything, programming, graphics, marketing, etc., in-house. I'm a one-man show (and not a single client has ever asked me if I had a college degree). They love that I can charge less than the "professional design firms" because I'm just one person with no overhead working from home. Best of all, I set own prices and my own hours. If a client gives me something I can't handle, I outsource it and make a profit on someone else's labor.

Most importantly, though, there's a sincere satisfaction in knowing that I'm solely responsible for my own income. Sure, there's an eerie weirdness in the fact that I have no salary, no guaranteed income, but the fact is the only person who can fuck up my career is ME, and I'm the last person who is going to let my career get fucked up. Maybe Sara ought to consider freelance. She certainly sounds qualified, and the market is out there.

Your right with your comparison of the blue collar worker. However high tech jobs are all going to China or India. I need to hire someone with test utility experience, but I'm forced to look at someone place in Bangalore India. PHD's are 15K / year there. More than half the current employees are on visa's from there. Our I/T was moved to there.

if you really want to grind any moderately sized city to a screeching halt have all the fast food workers just not come into work. Yeah, I have worked for the clown for a lot longer than I will admit. But the corporation may be a gang of evil asshats but the guy/gal/?? handing you your is a human being and damn it would be nice to be able to pay them a real living wage.

Awesome. I'd help organize in a second if my fellow programmers showed any interest. My dad's a long-time union electrician in NYC, and he's always urging me to organize no matter where I work. Need rabble rousers? I'm here for you.